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20/f, sudden. What type of hair loss does this look like?

Discussion in 'The Undiagnosed' started by sunlit, Oct 28, 2014.

  1. sunlit

    sunlit Established Member

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    Hi all. I'm really glad to find this forum. I've been reading posts here for a few days and it seems like a really supportive and knowledgeable community. I'm hoping that some ladies here who are going through similar can shed some light on what's happening to me. I've uploaded a few photos of my hair loss and would really appreciate it if you could give your judgement. I'm not sure whether this is telogen effluvium or whether this is Androgenetic Alopecia or female pattern baldness.

    I'm 20 years old. In August my hair was normal, then in September it started falling out in an extreme way. Since then, I've been shedding huge amounts of hair all the time - shower, comb, throughout the day without touching it - big handfuls. The hairs are generally long with small white bits at the root, though I have shed some short hairs too (though they may only be short because of dye-breakage). I am losing hair all over my head, but my temples are almost bare now and it's most obvious around my crown and parting. The difference in my hair is very noticeable, and it's only been two months.

    27 August, my normal hair before any of this started (I only took this photo to show a friend my uneven dye job):
    normal top of head.jpg

    04 October, back of my head when tied up:
    dry hair back of head.jpg
    This looks like a bald patch, but it isn't a patch, it's a parting. This is how wide the gaps between the "lines" of hairs are. It's very thin all over.

    24 October, top of my head when wet:
    wet hair top of head.jpg
    (fringe hides my front hairline, sorry)

    24 October, top of my head when dry:
    dry hair top of head.jpg


    I have been to a doctor. They tested my iron (17% transferrin saturation, ferritin is 32) and thyroid (healthy), but said "it's stress, use minoxidil" and had no diagnosis or advice. I haven't had my hormones tested at all. Stress makes sense: I lost an immediate family member very suddenly in June and had a minor surgery under general anaesthetic in July. The suddenness suggests TE to me, but I'm worried it might be patterned hairloss because of what the top of my head looks like. When I look at the way my parting has got so wide in the middle and towards the crown, it makes me worry it's Androgenetic Alopecia/FPB. My parting is wider in the center than if I part it at the side. My mother has thinning hair in the female pattern, but she is 60 years old and it didn't hit til after menopause.

    Also, it seems relevant that my scalp hurts. It's very sore and aching, especially in the center part/crown area.

    I'm taking iron supplements, but should I use minoxidil as my doctor recommended? I can feel tiny little bristles of new hair in many parts of my head, so it seems like my scalp is still "alive" (touch wood, fingers crossed they'll grow). I am scared minoxidil might do more harm than help, but at the same time, I worry that my hair loss won't recover if I don't treat it soon.

    Does this look like the hormonal pattern to you, or does it look diffuse? I would be so grateful for any opinions or advice.
     
  2. nimk

    nimk Member

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    This is exactly the same kind of hair loss that i have :( Mines progressed in the exact same way, and it has been a year now with no improvements to be seen. My iron is really low, and 2 of the dermatologists that i have seen told me that it's most likely TE i am suffering from. The weird thing though... is that my hair loss isn't just on my scalp, but all over my body! And its like within a week of the sudden loss, all the hair on my body decreased by min. 30% (around 65% now).

    Since you have sudden hair loss, then it most likely is not Androgenetic Alopecia especially since the pattern of hair loss is all over your scalp. All i can say right now, is DO NOT worry over your hair. Because it will stress you out, and trust me when i say that it will not help. I had a blood test done specifically for stress, and my levels were really high which worsened the hair loss. Even when you don't "feel" the stress, you most likely are. So just relax and try meditating in the mornings and before sleep.

    I wouldn't really recommend rogaine since i had a bad experience with it, and its more for people with Androgenetic Alopecia. I was brainwashed into it by my derm, and i ended up regretting it. This is of course, just my opinion and your experience could be completely different from mine. However since your iron is below 90, i would definitely take an iron supplement, drink more water and focus on a healthy diet. There are a lot of articles online about how ferritin can effect hair loss and mimic Androgenetic Alopecia.

    Hopefully this helped! if you have anything you'd like to ask me about specifically then you can always message me and i will be willing to respond back :)
    Good Luck!!

    P.S i'd like to say that your hairloss is completely undetectable so you don't need to worry about anyone noticing it at all (something i struggled with in the very beginning of my loss)
     
  3. sunlit

    sunlit Established Member

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    nimk, thanks so much for writing back to me with such kind words!

    I'm so sorry to hear about what you've been going through. Body hair is something most women would wish to disappear, but I know that having it fall out like that must be really alarming. Having it go on for such a long time and for no clear reason sounds like a nightmare. I looked at your posts and saw what you said about Rogaine and your iron levels :( I'm really sorry that's happened. It sounds like hair loss is an uphill battle. What you say about rogaine makes me think it's not worth trying.

    I'm definitely going to try to reduce my stress, but easier said than done... having your hair fall out is stressful enough in itself, and of course normal life is stressful enough to cause this in the first place! I try to eat very well anyway, but I'm making more of an effort with meat, fruit and vegetables and also taking food supplements. I'm taking liquid iron, calcium, vitamin D, vitamin C and a 'skin, hair and nails' pill. I tried biotin as per the internet's reccomendation but it gave me headaches and acne of a kind I've never had in my life. I feel like the amount of iron I'm taking right now isn't enough but I'm scared of taking too much because I know that can be harmful too. I hope that exercise might help by increasing blood circulation... painful to say as I'm not an active person! I'm not sure if any of these things make a difference, but even if they don't help the hair, they'll help the rest of the body.

    Has yours been falling at the same rate all the year? Do you feel any new hairs growing even while it's falling out? Also, do you have the weird scalp pain that I do?
     
  4. mrvitous26

    mrvitous26 Established Member

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    Sunlit, I am so sorry about your hair loss! You need an official diagnosis before you do anything! With Androgenetic Alopecia, Rogaine is effective. The pain you are experiencing, I want to say is dermatitis, because I experienced weird sensations with this: pain, tingle, itch, pulling. But I don't know. :( ^Like Nimk said, it is most likely not Androgenetic Alopecia since it is not all over (which is what I am experiencing.) Please get an official diagnosis. I cannot stress this enough! I think that it is more stressful when you don't know the cause... It seems like yours could be TE due to stressful events, but I am no doctor.

    :(

    Also, diet and exercise are HUGE for hair, and for stress, and for your overall mental health! I think that what helped me get through these last 3 years is just that. I am very active, and exercise has helped keep me balanced.

    Good luck, and keep us posted.
     
  5. sunlit

    sunlit Established Member

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    Thanks so much, mrvitous26. The problem is, I don't know how to get a diagnosis :( My GP isn't knowledgeable about this and doesn't really take it seriously, and I can't see myself getting a dermatologist referral on the NHS. I could find a private dermatologist, but I'm hesitant to spend so much money on seeing a doctor who might not even take me seriously. I've read about other people's experiences with unsympathetic dermatologists.

    I read in some other posts in the forum that antidepressants can cause hair loss, and I've taken a lot of antidepressants in the last 12 months (SSRI, SNRI, NaSSA). It seems like there are a lot of articles online about these causing hair loss. But I haven't taken any antidepressants since April, and given my shedding didn't start until September it seems like too long ago to be related. My GP thinks my hair loss is due to stress from my anxiety disorder, so wants me to go back on antidepressants to relieve the stress and solve the hair loss. But that doesn't feel right to me at all, and reading this makes me feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. The so-called 'solution' might worsen the problem.
     
  6. Jenk

    Jenk Established Member

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    You can use Valerian Root for anxiety, non addictive and usually well tolorated. I was misdiagnosed with depression because I had such horrible fatigue. Turns out it was really just low thyroid.. but not before antidepressants ruined my life. My entire personality changed while on them. I experienced feelings of emptiness that was just scary and black and could have never come from me. One of these drugs usually leads to another and another. It sounds horrible to say but exorcise can really combat stress, anxiety and mood. If you've been on the pill.. the pill is also thought to contribute to depression. I would see a Trichologist. I know it's expensive but I think the one at Philip Kingsley (they have an office in London as well as NYC) spent and hour and a half working with me. Knew a lot more than a derm. You should have blood work done though before you go if you can.. (if you decide to) hormone levels and iron, D, B12 Ferritin iron levels.
     
  7. sunlit

    sunlit Established Member

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    Thanks Jenk - I'll look into Valerian Root. I don't think it'll be suitable for me because it seems to be a sedative, but it's good to know there are natural remedies out there. It's been my experience too that antidepressants often do more harm than good... I think they're necessary for some people (myself included) but the ones currently available have too many side effects. Well, there's new research all the time, so maybe in a few years there'll be drug that works.

    I saw another GP who was very sympathetic, looked at my scalp this time said the hairloss was all over my head and likely due to my bereavement or the general anaesthetic... agreed that raising my iron levels was a good idea, as is de-stressing... she said I should wait for three months to see if it calms down, and in three months' time she'll have another look at it. Do you ladies think that waiting three months is a good idea (working on my iron etc in the meantime)? I am inclined towards that idea myself right now.

    I don't have my bloodwork to hand right now but my iron saturation was 17%, ferritin iron 32, I can't remember B12 but I think it was low but normal range. I haven't had my hormones tested and don't think I can get that done on the NHS - they say there's no point testing, because it'll be so different at different points in your monthly cycle. Apparently any result you get is so variable as to be useless. I've never used hormonal contraception and I don't have PCOS so I can only assume my hormones are OK.
     
  8. Jenk

    Jenk Established Member

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    AH. Well, the last doctor I had did test the male hormones, just no estrogen.. and I keep getting told just what you are, that there is no use in testing estrogen because it is different every day. However, my hair falls out like crazy when I get my period. That has got to be from falling estrogen levels. I get a migraine and then a period. Migraines are common at your period because of the falling estrogen level. I don't know what to do. Maybe something like DIMS would help?
    As I probably said before, my ferritin levels were 51 before a period but the second time I got them tested was right after a period and I had been supplementing all month - and it STILL dropped 20 points! I am hoping that using Proferrin will help. My new dermatologist said that this is a really excellent product. I am taking it 3x a day, which is the maximum amount. I am doing this because I was supplementing before and eating clams and iron rich food and my levels still dropped!

    It's good that you have never used hormonal contraception. Don't. If I had ever known how bad that stuff is for your body, in every way - I never would have used it! I hope you find answers soon!
     
  9. sunlit

    sunlit Established Member

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    It's not like there's been a huge improvement in what's going on but there's a big improvement in how I feel about it.

    My hair is still shedding like heck, but it's not as much as it was in early/mid October. I'm not counting hairs any more so I couldn't say how much less, but it is less than it was shedding at its peak, even if it's still more than normal. I still lose hair in the shower, in the comb and when I run my hands through it... but noticeably less hair in the shower, somewhat less in the comb, and I probably lose the most in my hands when I touch my hair over the course of the day (but not alarming numbers). I still find hairs on my clothes and on hats, but I don't constantly have strands dropping onto my shoulders like before. Now I just feel like a shedding dog rather than a dog going through its seasonal moult. Hopefully it will stay that way and continue to gradually decrease. My scalp is still sore/painful but not as constantly sore as before.

    But here's the part that's got me feeling better: I have lots of little new hairs sprouting! I can see baby hairs around my hairline and feel little spikes all over my head. It's like growing a crew cut under my hair. Slowly, but I can feel it's there! Obviously my hair is still falling out at a faster rate than it could possibly grow back, but the shed has got to stop at some point and my follicles must still be healthy so it'll surely work itself out eventually. It is still getting thinner but I'm keeping my fingers crossed it'll turn around.

    I'm not doing great with the stress and my periods have got a little out of whack (I'm sure due to the stress) but I'm eating more and better than I ever have in my life. So many vegetables! Keeping up with the supplements and trying to take them in the right combinations. I read online that tannin in tea prevents iron absorption, so I'm avoiding tea around the times I eat (I could never give it up though). I'm not actually exercising yet but trying to talk myself into joining some exercise classes. I'm not sure what else I can be doing, but I'll keep at what I'm up to and keep my eyes open for more!

    Oh, and still waiting for my Vitamin D results.
     
  10. sunlit

    sunlit Established Member

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    Some of the new hairs around the widow's peak area are coming in white/silver. Is that a bad sign? Should I be worried?

    How can you tell if hair is growing in miniaturised?




    My hairline has thinned so much that you can see right through it. I had a very high hairline to start with, so I feel like the loss is very noticeable :(

    - - - Updated - - -

    What is DIMS?

    Yeah... I'm suddenly having another massive shed, after having had it slow and reduce a lot for a couple of weeks... and it's that time of the month. I wonder whether my hormones are messed up because my cycle can and does vary anywhere between 25 and 45 days. On the other hand, I've been under chronic stress for the last 12 months and it's always worse with higher stress. I'm not sure about going back to the doctor yet again because I've been so many times this year they see me as a hypochondriac.

    Did you get scalp pain and find that was worse around your period? My scalp was beginning to feel normal, and now it's back to distracting pain again.
     
  11. alohakels

    alohakels Established Member

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    I think you can tell if the hair is miniaturized by like... if you pull one out from the thinning spots, then pull one out from a regular spot in your hair-- are they different thickness?

     
  12. sunlit

    sunlit Established Member

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    Unfortunately I can't do that... there is no spot where my hair isn't thinning. It's more noticeable in some places than others, but it's really falling out everywhere.

    Another problem with 'diagnosis'... my hair is very chemically damaged from a hairdresser's dye mistake about 2 weeks before the shed started, so each strand is now much thinner and more brittle than it would be normally anyway, so if it is thinner at the root I can't tell whether it's thinner due to miniaturisation or due to the damage.
    I am not sure how big the white bulb ought to be on a normal shed hair. The white bits on my hair seem very small, but I'm not sure if they haven't always been like that.


    Overall my parting still looks pretty similar to the photos in my first post:

    13 NOV TOP OF HEAD.jpg (my hair is falling forward here and lifting a bit at the roots rather than lying flat, which makes the parting look narrower at the front than it is)

    but the very front hairline is thinning out a lot more, I guess in the kind of widows' peak/fringe area:

    Untitled-1.jpg (more accurate representation of the front, but hair still falling forward which makes it harder to see)


    My temples are incredibly thin and my hairline has little gaps all the way along the front, if I were to put my hair in a ponytail. I know my hair loss isn't very noticeable yet, but I am worried about it getting worse and not growing back.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I had been feeling a lot of little stubble over my head, but on the right side of my head suddenly I can't really feel that any more, or not so much. It just feels like scalp, with a few little hairs here and there. I don't know if that means the little regrowth dropped out (!?!) or if it's just because I've lost a lot more long hairs there the last few days (which I have) and that's where the bare scalp feeling is coming from. Either way it makes me feel very discouraged.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Is it safe to assume it's 'just' T.E.? My GP said to wait 3 months, take iron and try to destress and see if it improves by itself, but I'm scared that if I do nothing right now, I'll lose ground I won't recover. Even if it is just T.E., I am so scared it's going to progress into something worse. Everything seems to line up for it being T.E. here right now, but my mother has Androgenetic Alopecia. I could have inherited it. I don't know if I can risk just crossing my fingers and leaving it alone. I really don't know what to do.
     
  13. LoosingItAll

    LoosingItAll Established Member

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    Did you ever take [h=2]Quetiapine / seroquil or resperidone /risperadol? I noticed you stated you had been on several axiety meds and Deprestion, I was taking these about 4 months before my hair began to fall !!! Seroquil is known to cause hairloss and issues of TE, Resperidone messes with a hormone called prolactin that causes our bodies to lactate and secrete breast milk. It really messes all the other hormones up. It makes the body think it is pregnant . as soon as I noticed I was weined off with in a week[/h]
     
  14. sunlit

    sunlit Established Member

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    I've never taken those, no. Over the last 12 months I've taken Sertraline, Citalopram, Mirtazapine and most recently Venlafaxine. But I stopped taking venlafaxine in late April or early May, so I don't think it can be connected... I think I only took that one for 8 weeks or so in the first place. I can't remember. This year has been so stressful that what pill I took when and for how long is a total blur.

    My problem is, my depression is pretty severe to start with and the hair loss is making me feel more depressed, and then the increase in stress increases the hair loss. A part of me wants to try going back on medication because I'm just not coping very well with life right now, but then on the other hand the medication might make my hair fall out more, which in turn will make the stress and depression worse and make the hair fall out more still!! I don't know what to do. I feel like there is just no option for me anywhere I look.




    This is what my temples look like now, wet hair and scraped back:

    15 nov wet hair hairline.jpg

    And my front hairline:

    15 nov wet hair hairline 2.jpg (my widows peak area is thinning out so badly, temples are just...ugh)


    I only started shedding at the beginning of September and my hair already looks so bad. I am hoping and praying that the shed will stop before the end of 2014 because if it keeps on I don't know what I'll do. I am so hoping this is just TE, but is it usual for TE to make such a difference in your hair so quickly? So scared it's not going to stop and it's all going to go.
     
  15. LoosingItAll

    LoosingItAll Established Member

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    I had, have had, and sometimes still do have SCALP PAIN ! This is a God send ! Only apply where needed with tip applicator up to 3 times daily. Over the counter at Wal -mart, Wal greens, CVS, Rite -Aid . http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/sc...3457&sst=688764a6-5665-5349-d2e4-00004eede405

    Takes away the sting burn and itch , with Hydrocortisone 1 % Lowers inflamation as well due to it being a topical steroid .

    There are many medical hypothesis for " Burning scalp syndrome" One being anxiety due to hair loss which was proven in one clinical trial and another due to More shedding hairs going into the TE stage ..Most physc Dr.'s believes it is due to being over taxed with stressed and depression
     
  16. sunlit

    sunlit Established Member

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    Hi Sarah,

    Thanks for your reply. I saw your thread and thought your hair loss pattern looks similar to mine.

    I have no redness but the pain definitely comes and goes. I can feel tiny "stubble" over my head but I can't actually see it yet - I think it's too short still really to be visible.

    Honestly, at this point, from what I've read online... if my shedding stops at all and grows back, I'll consider myself lucky. Having read so many stories from women online whose hair loss has been permanent, if it ever stops then I am lucky. I don't know if it will, I hope it will.

    Unfortunately if I am shedding til March I don't think I'll be able to get away without wearing supplemental hair, looking at what the rate of loss so far is like :/ I don't have enough hair on my head to support another 4 months of heavy shedding, and of course for some people it continues longer. I suppose I'll have to cross that bridge when I come to it.

    Good luck to you too. I hope you can find some answers and a solution.




    Thank you, I'll look into that. I could definitely see the scalp pain being psychosomatic. I read another explanation for it online which I'm probably misreporting slightly - something like, the pain is due to nerves noticing that a follicle is empty where a hair used to be. But I think I read that on wikipedia, so hardly a reputable source!

    I have noticed the pain is worse on and after big-shed days, so there might be something in that.
     
  17. sunlit

    sunlit Established Member

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    Sarah, thanks so much for being so kind. Hearing that is really encouraging. I hope I'll be able to hide it. I've stopped counting hairs (too stressful) but unfortunately what I have working against me is that I had very fine hair to start with, so I didn't have much hair on my head in the first place. I had thought my hair loss was still unnoticeable to anyone else (I really feel it looks minor from the pictures, even if they're very different from my 'real' hair) but then yesterday someone who knows about my problem told me it's getting noticeable. I'm hoping that isn't true.

    Thanks so much, again. I always have a tendency to catastrophise and think the worst so it's wonderful to have this forum as a voice of reason.

    I think I just have to calm down, accept that what will be will be and there's nothing I can do about it. I can work on my stress/diet/etc but all this time I am STILL spending trawling the internet for 'cures' is time wasted. Accepting the lack of control is one of the hardest things I think!
     
  18. sunlit

    sunlit Established Member

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    The bad news: I'm still shedding. My hair is much thinner than the last photos I posted. My temples are almost gone and my hairline has become very 'gappy'. There's an extremely thin patch in the centre front just behind where my widow's peak used to be, where you can see right through. As for overall volume... the circumference of my ponytail is now just over an inch.

    The good news: I have regrowth! I can see new growth at my front hairline, and it is pigmented. There isn't a lot of it, but it's coming back.


    I think taking iron has been making a difference.
     
  19. sunlit

    sunlit Established Member

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    Thanks Sarah!
    Yeah, it's wonderful news. I feel so much calmer than I did even a few weeks ago. I'm still shedding pretty heavily and have some nice bare scalp showing, but if it'll grow back then who cares? Of course nothing is certain, but I feel like I can trust my body to repair itself now. It seems like taking the iron and other vitamins has been helping.

    There are too many young women on this forum who have Androgenetic Alopecia early that I can't feel safe from that, but I just have to cross my fingers. My mother has it (relatively mildly) and I had two bald grandfathers, but no other women in my family have any hair loss at all, and my father at 67 has a full head of hair. I figure I have a 50/50 chance, but I'm hoping that if I do have it, it won't be until later in life.

    My thyroid is totally healthy, thankfully. My cycle is weird, but I can't say that isn't due to stress. My life hasn't been stable so it doesn't surprise me that my body isn't stable. I'm going to see a doctor about my cycle after Christmas, if it's still odd by then - I'm sure I don't have PCOS but that doesn't mean something else hasn't gone wrong. My surgery was actually related to this so it wouldn't surprise me if I had a hormonal imbalance.

    Thanks so much for your kindness and replies, I appreciate it so much.
     
  20. Jenk

    Jenk Established Member

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    Yeah I read this. I argued SO hard with my doctors about this Androgenetic Alopecia diagnosis. Makes NO sense to me. ALL my life I never had ONE SINGLE problem with my hair - and there is NO ONE in my family with any hair issues except one grandfather and I have no idea how he lost his hair- could have been an illness for all I know. My father, his brother and all their children have their mothers hair, thick and wavy til the day both she and my dad died. No hair loss at all in my mom's family. I go off this loestrin pill combined with being put on propranolol (which puts your hair in a shedding phase) and everyone starts saying "Oh you have Androgenetic Alopecia, this was going to happen to you anyway." I know my own body and I KNOW this NEVER would have happened to me normally. I have never believed I had Androgenetic Alopecia. It's never sat right with me. I think this doctor is right. It makes a lot of sense to me. My new Derm said that she has Androgenetic Alopecia and yet her hair is beautiful. I think her point is that we all have it to some degree and we all get some of it as we get older. I have some new growth now but I wonder if the density is going to come back.
     

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