Dismiss Notice
Welcome! Please read this announcement regarding the new Forums: Click Here"

Men don't know how good they have it

Discussion in 'Girl Talk!' started by sunlit, Apr 7, 2015.

  1. sunlit

    sunlit Established Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2014
    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    26
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    I feel like I'm going to get lambasted by angry posters from male hair loss forums for posting this, but it's true. Balding men don't know how lucky they are.

    I keep thinking about this lately. If a man is losing his hair - at any age - he can just cut it very short or shave it off, and then go about his life exactly the same as before. We don't have that option. If he wants to keep his hair he can use minoxidil/finasteride/etc, and he can use toppik or a hair system if he wants, but he doesn't have to. He's free to walk around with noticeably thinning hair in its natural state, he can be in public with noticeable balding and still be totally 'normal' and acceptable. He can have a buzzcut or shave his head completely, go out in public like that, go to work like that, and it's fine.

    I am so incredibly jealous of that. If society saw female hair loss the same way that it sees male hair loss, this forum wouldn't contain nearly so much heartbreak.

    Yes we can wear wigs, and wigs often look beautiful, but that doesn't seem like such a comfort when it isn't really optional. I resent that a woman would have to spend 3 figures just to be seen as normal, when a man in the same position can just be as he is naturally and it doesn't cost him anything. It probably varies by area, but I know that where I live a woman couldn't be bald in public (or even just very short haired) without being stared at, asked rude questions, etc. I can't imagine being able to go into work like that.

    If I was a guy and this happened to me, even at 21, I could just buy a pair of clippers and move on with my life, the only difference being I'd never have to pay for a haircut again or bother with shampoo. If society was less restrictive about what women have to look like, I could react exactly that way and just forget about it. But because of how things are, it has to be so important and it feels like everything about the way I see myself and my life has changed.
     
  2. JustMeS

    JustMeS Established Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2014
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    2
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    You are right, if you posted this on a male dominant forum like HairLossTalk you would be attacked for daring to say that women have it worse. I am actually active on HLT and over there they seem to think that men have it worse, because women can "just wear wigs". I don't think that is true, because wigs are no soultion for hair loss. A wig is expensive, can look unnatural, has to come off every night, limits the activities you can do, is hot and can be uncomfortable +++ I 100% think women have it way worse because our very femininity depends on our hair. It's not like males lose their masculinity when they lose their hair, although I do understand that losing your hair can be very traumatic no matter the sex.
     
  3. sunlit

    sunlit Established Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2014
    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    26
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Exactly. I don't think men understand how expensive wigs are.
     
  4. JustMeS

    JustMeS Established Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2014
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    2
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    I don't think they do... Every time I've said something about hair loss for women their reply is "why don't you just wear a wig!", and every time I try to explain why I don't want to... Anyway I probably have to, if my hair loss becomes much worse :( Like you say we don't have a choice, it's not like we can walk around bald without being stared at. Actually I saw a woman at the mall not too long ago that had shaved her head, and I must admit it drew my attention. But at the same time I was a little jealous that she dared to be bald in front of all those people, don't think I could. I wonder what her story was and why she chose to shave her head. I don't think she was Alopecia Universalis because there was evidence of little shaved stubbles on her scalp.
     
  5. JKSZ

    JKSZ Established Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2013
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    1
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    True, men have that option of shaving it off or buzzing what's left of their hair very short and walking around in public unnoticed, but to many of them, it's devastating (and rightly so) to suffer hair loss and have their looks altered adversely. I've mentioned previously that my son started losing his hair, drastically and diffusely, as soon as he turned 18. No, Propecia hasn't let him "keep his hair"--it's falling out just as much as it did when it first started. Men will tell you to just get a wig, you'll tell them to just buzz it, but in the end, it sucks for men and women equally who are negatively affected by Androgenetic Alopecia and can't get past it. I am, and will always be, one of those people. You really can't know what you would do or how you would feel if you were a guy, as every guy doesn't have a perfectly shaped head, chiseled jawline, masculine features and the ability to grow facial hair (if he chooses) to rock the bald look. And men can't know how it would feel to have to wear an uncomfortable wig in all kinds of weather, all kinds of activities and social occasions 365 days a year if they don't want to be stared at in public. Some men don't give a sh*t about baldness, and some women (my aunt was one of them) don't dwell on their baldness either.
     
  6. hairlosshelp

    hairlosshelp Established Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2015
    Messages:
    287
    Likes Received:
    4
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    I think men are lucky in the sense that they're usually good candidates for a hair transplant and at least when the hair falls out, they know the reason why.

    And with it being more socially acceptable for men to suffer from hair loss, they aren't judged as negatively as women in that regard. I mean just look at weight and appearance in general - women are always just so much harsher by men! Add to the fact that women aren't normally shown with hair loss from Androgenetic Alopecia in the media that men who encounter women with this hairloss would be far too shocked. I mean I'm a woman and I was shocked that it was possible for women to lose hair genetically until it happened to me. I can't imagine a guy my age being even remotely aware of what Androgenetic Alopecia even is. My biggest concern is finding a husband and I know that seems so shallow but I always envisioned myself in a happy marriage with kids. Right now I've already accepted that biological kids is a big no no for me because if the kid gets hair loss I won't be able to forgive myself for that. I'm not opposed to adopting though, so this is the route I'd most likely take. It just means finding a husband who is open to not just that, but my hair loss too. *sigh*
     
  7. Lily

    Lily Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,763
    Likes Received:
    11
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    I agree with all of you - much more acceptable for a man to shave his head, and they have a much better chance at hair transplant success. AND - they can wear a toupee too! My stylist has both male and female clients and the men look great, very natural.
     
  8. JKSZ

    JKSZ Established Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2013
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    1
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    How do you know this? Men need enough hair from their donor area, and not all of them have it. Also, some suffer shock loss and are left with not only baldness but a scar that they can't cover up. It's a risk for them, and nothing is guaranteed. How about a NW7 guy? He probably will never be able to get decent coverage.

    As far as how they are judged, all I can say is read some of the posts on HLT under "The Impact of Hair Loss." My son's in college. Do you think a girl that age would choose a balding guy over one with hair? Be honest.

    I feel for you young girls here, believe me. I feel for every man and woman impacted by this disease. Instead of moaning about who has it worse, men or women, all of us should be angry at the fact that in all these years (I remember making fun of Rogaine commercials back in the '70s--bad karma for me), nothing is stopping Androgenetic Alopecia. We should be united in our disgust with the lack of effective treatments and research by the medical/science community and that hair loss is not taken seriously.
     
  9. speedpuppy

    speedpuppy Established Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2014
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    1
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    :agree:
     
  10. sunlit

    sunlit Established Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2014
    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    26
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    One of my friends is 21 with pretty significant balding, and he has a girlfriend who actually has cause for jealousy because of other girls being after him. As a teenager I knew a guy who was totally (and I mean totally) bald at 18 and he never was short of a girlfriend from what I remember. I'm not saying it's roses for them because they do get teased about it by other guys, but they haven't had problems with the opposite sex because of it. I hope your son knows people like that too - he really doesn't need to feel too disheartened.

    I know my friend is bothered by his hair loss because he talks about feeling unattractive because of it, so I'm not trying to say it has zero emotional impact for men. What I envy about it is that it's known about and acceptable for them. In the street today, I saw more balding/thinning men than I could count, ranging from their 20s to elderly. They don't have to cover it up with powder/fibre/wigs and it doesn't cost them anything. There's no way I could go out of the house with the amount of balding my friend has and not get stared at or worse. Whereas he can even go to a job interview like that, still be considered to look professional, and get the job. He doesn't have to spend hundreds on toppers or wigs just to be treated like normal. That's what I'm jealous of.
     
  11. hairlosshelp

    hairlosshelp Established Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2015
    Messages:
    287
    Likes Received:
    4
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Men usually do tend to be better candidates for an hair transplant than women as they don't have as much diffuse hair loss.

    I've also actually seen many girls with bald men and it's not a myth that physical appearance matters more to men than women when choosing an opposite sex partner, especially in their teens and 20s. My mother's cousins had a father who went bald at a very young age and 3/4 boys were bald in their 20s and none of them seemed to have any issues with women, all married now.

    And the sad thing is that while they don't seem to be able to find any effective treatments, I feel like the majority of it is aimed to treat MPB. IMO, it should have actually been much easier to find a suitable treatment for FPHL much quicker just because FPHL isn't as progressive in comparison to MPB, but when they're doing research for this it is primarily with men in mind, so we are put on the back burner until they look into whether these treatments also work for women.
     
  12. JKSZ

    JKSZ Established Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2013
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    1
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    It's true that most women suffer diffuse loss, so there is no way of knowing which hairs extracted and transplanted will be susceptible to DHT. I will reiterate that there is no guarantee that men won't suffer shock loss or continue balding until the donor area is exhausted. If hair transplants were highly successful, then you'd probably see many celebrities and wealthy men avail themselves of them (Bruce Willis and John Travolta, for example). What guy worth millions wouldn't choose hair over baldness? It's a risk, and not every man is a good candidate for one.

    I rarely see a guy in his late teens and early 20s with any signs of baldness, and I have noticed men's hairlines ever since my son's hair loss began. How old are the many girls you see? Sorry, but I think the majority of young balding guys have a harder time attracting girls than their NW1 counterparts. My father would have been 90 years old if he were alive today, and he told me many years ago that when he started losing his thick hair in his 20s, it bothered him a lot. Everyone is wired differently, but I would think going bald would bother most guys. Just visit any men's hair loss forum.

    As for my hair loss, it's Androgenetic Alopecia, so I would think that I'd benefit from any treatment for MPB, since the cause is the same. My hormones, thyroid, cortisol--you name it--are all in normal range.
     
  13. sunlit

    sunlit Established Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2014
    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    26
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    I'm sure most girls in their 20s will pick a guy with hair over a guy without hair, it's true. But most girls in their 20s will pick a 6 foot tall guy over a 5'8" guy, or a fit guy over an overweight guy, if they're going on looks alone. The young balding guy isn't any more disadvantaged than those guys in my opinion, maybe less disadvantaged than the overweight guy actually. Any of those guys will have fewer women attracted to them than very attractive guys of the same age, but a lot of women either will overlook it or it won't matter to them at all. Almost everybody has some kind of flaw like that (or multiple flaws like that) that are going to put some people off but not others. Hair loss and height both suck because they're things people have no control over, I do think both of those are pretty serious in terms of affecting male confidence, but it's not like either is the be all and end all.

    From having googled the charts I'd estimate my friend is probably a NW4, and honestly I get the feeling he probably wouldn't be interested in a girl with the same level of hair loss as he has, or tbh any hair loss at all. He noticed my thinning before I mentioned it to him, and it's not even comparable to his. Of course I could be wrong and not all men will feel like that anyway, but female hair loss definitely receives a different attitude from male hair loss. Male hair loss isn't the height of beauty but everyone is used to seeing people with it. I get the feeling that a lot fewer guys in their 20s will overlook a girl's hair loss compared to how many girls will overlook a guy's.

    I mean really what it comes down to for me is that I'm jealous of the normalness of male hair loss. The fact that guys the same age as me with the same hair problems or worse can walk around as they are without having to spend a lot of money on covering it up if they don't want to. They feel less attractive but they won't have anyone assuming they're ill etc. Whereas even if a woman was totally comfortable with her hair loss or baldness and even liked it, it's difficult to go out in public with it showing because of the way strangers might react.
     
  14. JustMeS

    JustMeS Established Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2014
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    2
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    I agree 100% with this. It doesn't really matter who has it worse, what matters is that this is a crappy disease that affects both men and women with little to no treatment options. Men can shave, and I envy them that, but I have seen how much hair loss affects men on HairLossTalk and they can be just as depressed and down about it as us women. Some hate the shaved look on themselves but have to do it because of their hair loss.
     
  15. JKSZ

    JKSZ Established Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2013
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    1
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    A nice shaped head, attractive facial features, being tall and not overweight can compensate a good deal for baldness. Not every guy has those characteristics, though (except weight can be controlled). Balding ages most young men. The same goes for women's features. If there were just as many bald women walking around as bald men, I'd still wear a wig at all times because my head is small, the top of it is flat, and I hate my profile. Plus I'm 52, so things are starting to go south (jowls and neck). Some men need hair just like we do to detract from their flaws. It's easier for them only in the sense that they have a choice to wear hair or not.

    I see you have TE, so there is still hope for you. It's just pathetic that in 2015 Androgenetic Alopecia is still a death sentence. Nothing to do but watch globs of hair clog our drains and sinks day after day, our scalps showing through more and more. Every time (and I see this every day) I see a woman's scalp through what's left of her pathetic hair, I become more depressed and realize that there will never be a cure for us. I gave up hoping. Now my wish is to somehow get enough money to become a recluse for as much of my life as I can. Every day is a struggle. I exist for my husband's and sons' happiness and to shower them with my love, but I am dead inside.
     
  16. JustMeS

    JustMeS Established Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2014
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    2
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Me too, JKSZ :'(

    I never thought I would encounter a problem that would affect every single part of my life in a negative way, but then along came hair loss... The best way to describe it is like you said, being dead inside.
     
  17. Nilli57211

    Nilli57211 Established Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2010
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    2
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    I think it's hard for both men and women to be honest. You can't really say it's harder for a woman, because you don't know what it's like to be a balding man. There definitely are certain things about it that are harder for women, such as the fact that balding is seen as normal for men and not for women. I can't tell you how many times I have had people, when I mention my hair loss, give me advice about changing my diet or taking vitamins or whatever. They would never say that to a man, because for a man, it wouldn't be seen as something he is doing wrong but just a result of genetics. But then there's the other side of that, and that's the side where even though I have lost a large percentage of my hair, it is still not noticeable to people unless I actually mention it or point it out. This is rarely the case with a balding man, just because of the pattern at which they lose their hair. Even if they only lose a little bit of hair, the receding hairline is very noticeable. I hated my hair loss in my late teens and early twenties, but I think it would have been even worse if it had been to the point where people would actually notice it. With a man who is balding, that is pretty much the first thing you see when you look at him. Not the case for most of us. I try to stay away from bright lights because it is very thin on top of my head, and if I'm in a bright area, a lot of scalp will show, but that is about it.

    Instead of talking about who has it better and who has it worse, I think we need to be bombarding those hair loss research companies with emails and messages to try to persuade them to actually push forward with female trials and stop only focusing on men.

    Histogen is just one example. I saw photos of a couple of women before and after the treatment, and the results were absolutely phenomenal after only 12 weeks. The results were so so in men, but they were amazing in women. But I saw this picture back in 2011, and as far as I know, they have made no further progress since then. Not with female trials anyway. That is just not acceptable at all in my opinion. They are working on male trials and are pushing through with those, but they are just not really making an effort with the female trials, even though the treatment looks like it would be much more effective in females.

    I have started a couple of threads on this, about just flooding their inboxes and possibly contacting celebrities and other wealthy people who could potentially be willing to invest in trials provided that all of the money goes towards female trials only. But people didn't really seem to be that into it, or maybe they just didn't see the threads. I don't really understand why people wouldn't be into an idea like that, because obviously our hair loss bugs us a lot. And we have no control over it and we can't stop it, so why not try to exert control where we can and to try to do something to push these companies forward so that we can actually get a treatment?
     
  18. JKSZ

    JKSZ Established Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2013
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    1
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Instead of talking about who has it better and who has it worse, I think we need to be bombarding those hair loss research companies with emails and messages to try to persuade them to actually push forward with female trials and stop only focusing on men.


    Agree 100%. I, too, initiated a thread, with little response. The guys on Bald Truth are working with Follicept to launch their product. The guys there and on HLT are aggressive and united in finding an effective treatment or (dare we dream) a cure. I feel that after we ladies have had all the proper tests (hormones, vitamins, thyroid, PCOS, etc.) to rule out possible causes of our hair loss and a scalp biopsy reveals Androgenetic Alopecia, it's time to join the men, because more than likely what will benefit them will benefit us (except a hair transplant). My opinion. I'm done counting hairs and examining the bulbs, ends and thickness. It is what it is. And when I read a post like yours, Nilli, that you have been losing your hair since your teens, I become infuriated! No one, male or female, deserves to have his or her youth robbed from him or her like that. I can't even put into words how that saddens me.
     
  19. sunlit

    sunlit Established Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2014
    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    26
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    It is harder for a woman. I can say that with 100% certainty without knowing what it's like to be a balding man.

    Like I keep saying - a man who's balding, no matter how bald he is, can go out in public like that and just get treated like any other person. A woman with the same visible level of balding as he has wouldn't be able to go out in public without getting stared at and risking harassing comments from strangers. A man can turn up to work with his balding visible, a woman definitely could not.

    It's not only men who get receding hairlines - my hairline is receding and I know other women on this forum have receding hairlines too.

    Many women have hair loss that is immediately noticeable to other people, or would be the first thing you saw if they didn't cover it up. Diffuse loss is more common in women, but some women do have hair loss at the same level of a man's. But society basically obligates them to cover it up.

    If I was a 21yr old man losing my hair, I wouldn't have to be worrying about wearing hair and stressing about how I'm going to afford it. That is a huge privilege men have that women with hair loss don't. It's not their fault that society treats male hair loss totally differently from female hair loss, but they are incredibly lucky for it and I wish it was the same for us.
     
  20. Lily

    Lily Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,763
    Likes Received:
    11
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Basically I agree that it's easier for men since society allows them the acceptable option of shaving their heads. Not to say it's all fun and games, especially for young men. I also don't necessarily agree that what works for men will work for women - my first derm told me at that time that scientists weren't even sure male and female hair loss had the same causal agent. I have lost almost all body hair and notice that even bald men have hair growing all over their body and out of every orifice. I hope there will be a cure in my lifetime but am losing hope at this point. Every time I hear about something new I also read that it's years and years away, if at all.
     

Share This Page