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Minoxidil Shedding And The End Of Hope

Discussion in 'Women's General Hair Loss Discussions' started by Georgina, Nov 24, 2017.

  1. Georgina

    Georgina Established Member

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    I’m 24, female and basing fast. My whole life has been a struggle. My family was dysfunctional, my mother had severe alcohol dependency issues, I suffered sexual abuse from a family friend, and again when I was older. As a teen I went through years of being hospitalised for anorexia. There was a time when I was 19-20 when I thought things were going to be ok. Then at 21 I started losing hair, was told my hormones had all but abandoned me and that I would never have children. The hairloss has been rapid. I was disfonlsed with Androgenetic Alopecia in 2015. I started using topical and oral minoxidil, the pill (Diane) and Spironolactone. Well the Spironolactone made me sick so that was out a few months later. However I noticed something else these past few years. I shed almost every 3-4 months badly on midoxildil. For a good month or two, maybe three. It’s totally fucked my hair cycle. So whilst it has regrowing
    My hairline, it still recedes every few months, and my hair density can’t keep up. Lately my hair is the worst it’s ever been. I have been thinking “I have to find a good antiandrogen”. I’ve been looking at topicals, shampoos - everything. I started Dutasteride this past week (0.5mg once a week). Then this morning (after starting another week of another HUGE shed) that it is all hopeless. What good is trying to keep the hair if minoxidil is just going to make it fall out every few months? It’s not like I can always keep my hair short, because I’m a female. So effectively i’m screwed. I am totally screwed. Considering suicide and have already attempted a few years back. I can’t do this.
     
  2. rwchdr

    rwchdr Member

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    Hi
    I'm sorry you are going through this, I really feel for you :(
    I have been losing my hair for 3 years now. I have been on Dutasteride mesotherapy for a year and a half, with barely any results (my shedding lessened but not enough). So I started Dutasteride orally every other day. Now I am shedding so much like never before (it started around 3 weeks after taking the first pill). I just want to bang my head on the wall continuously.
    Good thing is, that my skin produces less oil now and also my body hair is decreasing (i had excessive body hair - hirsutism - too). So I don't know if this shedding is a good thing or not.
    Never tried minoxidil but I think with laboratory proven hormone issues, medicine directly affecting hormones is the best choice. Of course, it also comes with a few risks... I hope you will get better. And please don't hurt yourself. I'm sorry I could not say anything useful about minoxidil, though.
    Chidori
     
  3. Georgina

    Georgina Established Member

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    I read such great things about avodart/Dutasteride so was so excited to get it. Then I read the horror stories.
    Now I’m shedding buckets. I can’t even tell you how afraid and sad I am. I wish I knew what would work for sure. I wish there was a magic cure.
     
  4. rwchdr

    rwchdr Member

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    Yeah, the horror stories :/ I read them too. But I did not have another choice as my doctors refuse to prescribe anything else. It's a complete miracle I got my hands on Dutasteride as well. I don't really know what is happening to my hair but I hope it stops soon. Before starting Dutasteride orally (but having Dutasteride mesotherapy sessions every two months) I shed 25-40 hairs during and after shower, I was happy that it decreased from the initial 60-80.
    Now I'm shedding around 150. My temples are really bad but it's not much worse anywhere else (at least I want to believe so).
    It had a very sudden onset so I might have telogen effluvium (I had it before). But I don't know if it's the meds doing it or if it's due to some unknown health problem.
    It gives me hope though, that when I started Dutasteride mesotherapy last year, I did have an initial shed that lasted maybe 3-4 months, but it was less than this. After that my hair improved a bit, but only after several months (and I was still shedding more than normal that time).
    I wish you luck,
    Chidori
     
  5. Georgina

    Georgina Established Member

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    What dose of oral dutas are you on? I read a study thah 0.15mg a day produced good results, hence my theory of only taking one pill, maybe two per week. But this shedding is scary. My hair looks worse from day to day.
     
  6. rwchdr

    rwchdr Member

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    I am on 0.5 mg every other day. I guess 0.15 would not be enough for me as I am extremely sensitive to DHT and I have too many androgens anyway. I'm happy that it seems to work for my oily skin (nothing really helped before) and my excess hair. It IS effective but I don't understand then why my hair is falling out. Dutas should stop it if DHT is the cause of my initial hair loss. I read stuff that new hair is growing etc etc but this many? I don't really see them... Of course I see some new hairs but this shedding is way excessive.
    I don't want to stop taking it because it works on my skin and body hair problems.
     
  7. Georgina

    Georgina Established Member

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    Oh honey I feel your pain. I am scared because I have heard that because it increases testosterone as well as estrogen, it may make the situation worse because ultimately test is a precursor to DHT. That said, they DO say that shedding is a good sign? Did you shed on minoxidil? I mean, i do/did and the hair at least around the non FPHL areas seemed to regrow. My other thought though is that it’s like a TE shed because of the shift in hormones, and because it’s such a powerful drug, your body is saying it’s too much. They always say “te sheds will stop if you fix the underlying issue”, so what if that means the dutas becomes the underlying issue?! As you can see I have been thinking about this a lot haha! VERY scared and confused. Keep me updated with your progress?
     
  8. valentinab00

    valentinab00 Established Member

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  9. Georgina

    Georgina Established Member

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  10. valentinab00

    valentinab00 Established Member

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    We’re those thyroid results optimal? Have you also checked any other results like SHBG, prolactin, igf 1? To determine the binding of your estrogen and testosterone as well as any secondary hypothyroidism.
     
  11. Georgina

    Georgina Established Member

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    I’m not sure that I have to be honest. I was going to get a test dor serum test/free test and serum dht but maybe I will add those to the list.
     
  12. rwchdr

    rwchdr Member

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    Well I had TE sheds and they always came 4 months after the trigger, like surgery.
    Now it just makes no sense (it started 3 weeks after the first pill). Yes the Dutas increases testosterone and estrogen, but considering it works for my oily skin and excess hair, that does not seem to be the problem. And I have been on Dutas mesotherapy for 1.5 years and my shedding actually decreased (but not enough, that was the initial problem).
    I think I will wait 4-5 months and if it's not getting better I'm quitting it.
    Yes you should look at your thyroid too. For me it's also an issue but in a strange way. I took thyroid meds for 2 years and I got very sick on them. My TSH was between the optimal 1 and 2 but I could not sleep, suffered from anxiety and panic attacks, my eyebrows (and hair) were falling out.
    When I was borderline hypothyroid (TSH 3-4) before, I did not have hair loss. When I stopped the thyroid pills and started taking selenium, 4 months after my shedding decreased. My eyebrows became thick again.
    So I guess it's not a coincidence.
    I'm saying this to be careful, but of course, it never hurts to take a test for it.
     
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  13. rwchdr

    rwchdr Member

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    Sorry, I forgot that I never used minoxidil. My blood pressure is low and I don't want to have any more hair on my face (I am glad that it now decreased a bit). Also, it's just not an attractive solution for me.
     
    Georgina likes this.
  14. alexia35

    alexia35 Member

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    I too lose my forehead hair in front. my hair is vellus in front. did you do a georgina biopsy? if so, was it revealed?
     
  15. valentinab00

    valentinab00 Established Member

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    Some serum tests I find useful are, for reproductive: estradiol, estrone, progesterone, free, percentage, and total testosterone, lh, fsh, SHBG. Additional: prolactin, IGF 1. Full thyroid panel including: tsh, ft4, ft3, tg ab, tpo ab. We are looking for androgen activity and thyroid function, secondary hypothyroidism indicators.

    These are a start.

    Then there are nutrients that are useful like rbc selenium, etc.

    I will stop here since this could get long.
     
  16. Georgina

    Georgina Established Member

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    I did get a biopsy which revealed Androgenetic Alopecia.
    But I can tell you what I have discovered through study, because I always wondered why my hairline receded like a man.

    I’ll try to sum it it succinctly. Essentially, there is an enzyme found in the frontal hairline of women called aromatase which attaches to the follicle sheath and protects it from dht and genetic loss. It’s a increased by estrogen, which is why women (who have much more estrogen than men) usually therefore have more of this enzyme at the hairline, and won’t recede, but lose hair around the usual part line and crown. Men don’t have the estrogen = less aromatase to protect the hairline = recession. Now, I went through ovarian failure and loss of female hormones as I said, so essentially my hairline was left vulnerable to hairloss, miniturisation and recession with the absence of estrogen and aromatase.
    It was only with the introduction of Diane-35 birth control and minoxidil that my hairline came back, however those things haven’t helped to stop loss from the female pattern areas. For that, I need to find a dht blocker that works. Since it has been found that elevated levels of testosterone rather than elevated levels of DHT in the blood is congruent with female Androgenetic Alopecia, drugs like Finasteride or Dutasteride which RAISE testosterone levels are usually not helpful for women. This is why we need angroden receptor blockers like Spironolactone, Flutamide, Androcur or casodex, because they decrease testosterone levels and also prevent DHT from binding to the hair follicle. I must admit that I only just discovered this through hours of reading and study. I plan to therefore abandon dust series. I had no success with Spironolactone, so my next step is trying Flutamide or casodex (relatively the same), which are considered much more potent drugs. I will use this along with a topical DHT blocker like fluridil, Super Zix 2, or RU, so I shall try to attack from all sides. I hope it works.
     
  17. Georgina

    Georgina Established Member

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    I got a blood test done for serum test/free test, serum DHT, prolactin and iron yesterday. I can’t do many of the others because the pill interferes with that.
     
  18. valentinab00

    valentinab00 Established Member

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    Hopefully those labs will reveal something. Understand about the other labs (e2, e3, p) when you’re on the pill. SHBG is a good one to know how much test is bound or free.

    Still need to know if your thyroid function is optimized.

    I’d like to try the topical RU since it works through a different mechanism, though right now I’m using topical Spironolactone and minoxidil.
     
  19. Georgina

    Georgina Established Member

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    Any success with Topical Spironolactone? Also do you take an oral dht blocker? (Read my above post about those of you are interested in what I have found regarding what works best for women).
    I am on the verge of getting some RU except I have heard it stops working after some time.
     
  20. valentinab00

    valentinab00 Established Member

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    I just started topical Spironolactone two weeks ago. I currently take 50 mg of oral Spironolactone. I started the oral about one month ago, down from 100 mg since I’m doing topical at 100 mg. Too early to tell. Plus I’ve added other therapies. Same amount of shed, not more, as the last wash. I should know more in a few more weeks. Like you I’m trying to tackle at all angles — hormonal and androgenic. Feel free to pm if you want to chat offline.
     
    #20 valentinab00, Nov 27, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017

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